Question 1: How do you feel about appa’s choice of civil disobedience and were you proud of your son’s choice to join the freedom fighters?
Question 2: Tell us more about your wife and the role of her in your home?
Question 3: What inspired you to create the library? Who used it? What purpose did the books in the library serve in your life? Why did you allow Vidya to use the library even though it was located on the mens’ floor?
Hi Ashley, Thought you might be interested to know that Thatha's character is loosely based on my grandfather's. I've seen men like thatha, who remove themselves from the day-to-day running of a household after they become widowers ... and who mellow so much as they grow older that they are actually very liberal... Padma
Okay, driving home today I had some neat ideas about Thatha, but now after reading Padma's post I'm not so sure about them. Either way, here's what I thought of. Thatha may have shared some of his books with his wife when they were younger. They may have discussed them and even if they didn't agree with all the ideas in the books, they may be enjoyed reading about differing viewpoints. His wife may have longed to go to college herself, but being 2 generations older than Vidya, probably had no chance to go. The library may have been her chance to further her learning. If that is true, Thatha was probably excited to let Vidya use the library, as well as let her go to college, because her dreams may have been similar to his late wife's dreams.
As far as Thatha's wife's role, I would imagine it to be either very traditional, or as I described above. I'd imagine she would fulfill the traditional duties of a wife, but maybe also have academic discussions with her husband about all the books in the library. Reading might have been a nice escape from everyday life.
As far as the first question, I think Thatha would be proud of his son, but sorry that he was injured. He accepted his injured son's family into his house and treated them well. He bought new saris for Vidya and her mother, and allowed Vidya to use the library. He did not stand up for them, but we are unsure of how aware he was of periamma's abusive. I cannot imagine an Indian who would not be somehow proud of another citizen for fighting for India's indepedence. His son was nonviolently protesting, which goes along with their culture, so while Thatha never said much, I imagine he was happy his son was trying to fight, but upset about the outcome.
Martha, I agree that Tatha would be proud that his son joined the freedom fighters and protested nonviolently. Throughout the story we knew how dangerous it was by the way that Amma reacted to it in the beginning when Appa began to change his hours and routine. We know that it was a risk, yet it was a very admirable thing that Appa did. He cared for the injured and in the end protected a woman and saved her life. I think that Tatha would have admired his son for following their leader Gandhi and for taking a stand against the British rule. I also believe this because of the way Tatha responded to Kitta when he choose a different path and joined the British in the war.
Tatha’s wife was probably treated traditionally. I don’t know when she passed, but that would make a difference. Padma said Tatha’s character changed as he grew older and was a widow. This leads me to think that his wife probably did not go to college and served the traditional role. Perhaps he did consult with her regarding the happenings of the time and with decision making, but I think he probably was much more traditional himself when they were young. This reminds me of my Dad. When I was younger he had just immigrated to this country. His views were extremely traditional and he believed women had a distinct place, in the home. As I grew up I witnessed my Dad becoming more liberal and changing his attitudes. This is probably similar to Tatha in how he changed slowly over time.
I think Thatha would, in a sense, have some pride in his son's decisions. I think he did show some liberalism in the book, especially in the fact that he allowed Vidya to go to college instead of marrying Raman. In reflecting, I see Malatai signifying the traditional side of him, and Vidya the liberal side. I think as we are younger we see things as black and white. At the time when Thatha was young, tradition seemed so important. I can't help but think that he may have changed as he witnessed many things in his life whether it was the death of his wife, the lifetime of control that Britain had over his country, or the aftermath of a world war and the thought of the consequence the world would pay for yet another war. Just as Diane and Padma commented on the changes that occurred in many men after losing their wives. Thatha also commented that Vidya had a lot of her grandmother within her. I felt many times through the reading that Vidya's fight for independence was like that of her father and his quiet fight for independence. Thatha possibly treasured appa and Vidya for bringing a piece of his wife back. Overall, I can only imagine that a part of him felt a sense of disappointment for the loss his family experienced and how their life was turned upside down because of appa's decisions. However, I also think a part of Thatha must have been accepting of his son's choice to stand up for himself and demonstrate the dedication he had for his country.
Padma, thank you for giving us some information about your inspiration for thatha's character. Our group had such a great conversation about thatha! He is such a dynamic and intriguing character, and we all found ourselves wanting to know more about him. Although he wasn't always in the forefront of the story, his role was incredibly important. In so many ways he was mysterious and I loved it because it increased my interest in who he was and what happened in his past.
Diane and Martha, I think you both made some interesting remarks. I agree that thatha was proud of his son for his involvement in the nonviolence movement. When I was younger my parents always encouraged me to be true to myself and do what I thought was right even if it wasn't always something they agreed with. Although thatha did not agree with Kitta, he never reprimanded Vidya for running after him and he saved all of Kitta's letters for his family. To me, this shows that he still cares for him and is proud of his decision to follow his beliefs even though he doesn't agree with his decision. I want to believe that thatha would have been proud of his son for standing up for a woman who was unable to protect herself and was wrongfully harmed.
I also believe that thatha's wife was traditional. It seemed very apparent that the expectations of the men and women were well defined in this household. Vidya's aunts were appalled when Vidya asked for permission to use the library. It does not seem that anyone would have questioned or challenged the norm in the past. However, I agree with you, Martha, when you said thatha probably shared these books with his wife. Thatha made it clear that Vidya shared her grandmother's spirit and temper, so I am sure she maintained her traditional role while still satisfying her interests by reading. On page 225 thatha says, "I have grown old. I am as easy to manipulate as a lump of wet clay." It seems as though over time he has grown to appreciate this spirit in Vidya that was so similar to his wife's.
I do agree with you all that Thatha's wife was more than likely that of the traditional role. Wife, mother and taking on the roles of maintaining the cooking and serving within the household. Thatha commented that Vidya reminded him of her Grandmother, which leads me to believe that she may have wanted to have more than just handling some of the household duties at times. Therefore, I wonder the time period of which she lived limited her to some of her own dreams, and it was just unacceptable for her to live her dreams. I agree, Ashely, that the grandmother may have retreated to books to escape the limits she experienced in her day to day life, which also leads to a possible reason for the libraray. During Vidya's coming of age their was a great deal of change in the world around them, so maybe as appa reflected on the change,and his wife's memory,and was more accepting of Vidya's need for independence in giving her what he wasn't always able to give his wife. I often wondered what the tone of the aunts within the home would have been had she not passed away during childbirth. I know it was looked at as a burden to take on appa's family, so I wonder how she would have treated amma, Vidya, and Kitta? I guess in my mind she is more like appa and holds similarities to his beliefs and values.
I am wondering if Thatha might support his son's efforts because he agreed with freeing the people of India from British rule. He felt (and could see) the threat in his own back yard. I am wondering if he was not pleased about Kitta going to fight in the World War because he didn't feel the threat as close to home. I think it was more than Kitta was joining the British. It wasn't the British vs the rest of the world. I understand this feeling. I don't have sons, but I would have a hard time encouraging them to go to Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan to fight, but if there was an invasion on American soil, I think I might feel differently. I don't believe in war. I would support my child in their decision but wouldn't encourage the move. This is possibly how Thatha felt and this might be why he kept the letters. I would like to think that Thatha's wife (and Vidya) was the type of woman who really wanted and valued her role as a wife and mother but also wanted and valued other aspects of her life as well. I agree the library could have been created for her as this type of woman would not have been accepted in the outside world. I don't know if a person who is extremely traditional regarding gender roles could change to the point where see Thatha in this book. I am suspicious that he was always a bit less "strict" about the roles his wife played in their home. I don't think his permissiveness for his wife would have continued outside of the home, so maybe the library was used by his wife a great deal as an outlet for her need to grow in mind and spirit. As a Brahmin, the men in the family were required to be educated and knowledgeable about the world around them. This was probably the library's primary purpose. The decision Thatha made to let Vidya use the library didn't take him very long. It seemed like he had been down that road before (with his wife). He probably allowed Vidya to use the library just as he had his wife. This brings me back to the idea that he was possibly always a bit more liberal than the average person of the times.
Hey everyone, sorry for the confusion, when it posts as Martha (my mother) it's Laura. I'm not sure why it uses my name sometimes and her name other times! Sarah, I thought your idea about Malati representing the traditional side of Thatha and Vidya representing the liberal side of him was really neat. He obviously loved both, so we see that both tradition and new ideas are important to him. As readers, it was helpful to have a traditional Indian girl to which to compare Vidya, so that we could really see how liberal she was. I wonder which granddaughter was more like Thatha's wife?
Lynn, I really enjoyed reading your last post. I agree that thatha probably wasn't as strict as other men during his time. It seemed that he supported his wife and her curiosity, maybe not outside the confines of the house, but at least by engaging in conversation about what was going on in the world and by reading books from the library together. I agree that the library was something that thatha created to uphold his status as a Brahmin and become more well educated, but it also became a place where his wife and later Vidya could also educate themselves and use as an outlet.
Lynn and Ashley, I agree that Tatha probably originally created the library because he was Brahmin. It was expected of him to read books and become educated as he was a leader caste in society. However, Tatha created a room that he took much pride in. The books were all arranged in order and there was a variety of genres. I think that he probably enjoyed reading and had an internal passion for knowledge. I also agree that he probably allowed his wife to read and share the library. I don't think she herself went to college because women were expected to get married and fulfill their role as a wife. However, I do think that Tatha's wife probably took pride in the Library too, and she probably had some great discourse with Tatha stemming from the books. As Tatha's wife passed, the library was probably a place of many memories for him and seeing Vidya long for it, must have revived old memories and thoughts of his wife, her grandmother.
Question 1:
ReplyDeleteHow do you feel about appa’s choice of civil disobedience and were you proud of your son’s choice to join the freedom fighters?
Question 2:
Tell us more about your wife and the role of her in your home?
Question 3:
What inspired you to create the library? Who used it? What purpose did the books in the library serve in your life? Why did you allow Vidya to use the library even though it was located on the mens’ floor?
Hi Ashley,
ReplyDeleteThought you might be interested to know that
Thatha's character is loosely based on my grandfather's. I've seen men like thatha, who remove themselves from the day-to-day running of a household after they become widowers ... and who mellow so much as they grow older that they are actually very liberal...
Padma
Okay, driving home today I had some neat ideas about Thatha, but now after reading Padma's post I'm not so sure about them. Either way, here's what I thought of. Thatha may have shared some of his books with his wife when they were younger. They may have discussed them and even if they didn't agree with all the ideas in the books, they may be enjoyed reading about differing viewpoints. His wife may have longed to go to college herself, but being 2 generations older than Vidya, probably had no chance to go. The library may have been her chance to further her learning. If that is true, Thatha was probably excited to let Vidya use the library, as well as let her go to college, because her dreams may have been similar to his late wife's dreams.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Thatha's wife's role, I would imagine it to be either very traditional, or as I described above. I'd imagine she would fulfill the traditional duties of a wife, but maybe also have academic discussions with her husband about all the books in the library. Reading might have been a nice escape from everyday life.
As far as the first question, I think Thatha would be proud of his son, but sorry that he was injured. He accepted his injured son's family into his house and treated them well. He bought new saris for Vidya and her mother, and allowed Vidya to use the library. He did not stand up for them, but we are unsure of how aware he was of periamma's abusive. I cannot imagine an Indian who would not be somehow proud of another citizen for fighting for India's indepedence. His son was nonviolently protesting, which goes along with their culture, so while Thatha never said much, I imagine he was happy his son was trying to fight, but upset about the outcome.
Martha, I agree that Tatha would be proud that his son joined the freedom fighters and protested nonviolently. Throughout the story we knew how dangerous it was by the way that Amma reacted to it in the beginning when Appa began to change his hours and routine. We know that it was a risk, yet it was a very admirable thing that Appa did. He cared for the injured and in the end protected a woman and saved her life. I think that Tatha would have admired his son for following their leader Gandhi and for taking a stand against the British rule. I also believe this because of the way Tatha responded to Kitta when he choose a different path and joined the British in the war.
ReplyDeleteTatha’s wife was probably treated traditionally. I don’t know when she passed, but that would make a difference. Padma said Tatha’s character changed as he grew older and was a widow. This leads me to think that his wife probably did not go to college and served the traditional role. Perhaps he did consult with her regarding the happenings of the time and with decision making, but I think he probably was much more traditional himself when they were young. This reminds me of my Dad. When I was younger he had just immigrated to this country. His views were extremely traditional and he believed women had a distinct place, in the home. As I grew up I witnessed my Dad becoming more liberal and changing his attitudes. This is probably similar to Tatha in how he changed slowly over time.
I think Thatha would, in a sense, have some pride in his son's decisions. I think he did show some liberalism in the book, especially in the fact that he allowed Vidya to go to college instead of marrying Raman. In reflecting, I see Malatai signifying the traditional side of him, and Vidya the liberal side. I think as we are younger we see things as black and white. At the time when Thatha was young, tradition seemed so important. I can't help but think that he may have changed as he witnessed many things in his life whether it was the death of his wife, the lifetime of control that Britain had over his country, or the aftermath of a world war and the thought of the consequence the world would pay for yet another war. Just as Diane and Padma commented on the changes that occurred in many men after losing their wives.
ReplyDeleteThatha also commented that Vidya had a lot of her grandmother within her. I felt many times through the reading that Vidya's fight for independence was like that of her father and his quiet fight for independence. Thatha possibly treasured appa and Vidya for bringing a piece of his wife back. Overall, I can only imagine that a part of him felt a sense of disappointment for the loss his family experienced and how their life was turned upside down because of appa's decisions. However, I also think a part of Thatha must have been accepting of his son's choice to stand up for himself and demonstrate the dedication he had for his country.
Padma, thank you for giving us some information about your inspiration for thatha's character. Our group had such a great conversation about thatha! He is such a dynamic and intriguing character, and we all found ourselves wanting to know more about him. Although he wasn't always in the forefront of the story, his role was incredibly important. In so many ways he was mysterious and I loved it because it increased my interest in who he was and what happened in his past.
ReplyDeleteDiane and Martha, I think you both made some interesting remarks. I agree that thatha was proud of his son for his involvement in the nonviolence movement. When I was younger my parents always encouraged me to be true to myself and do what I thought was right even if it wasn't always something they agreed with. Although thatha did not agree with Kitta, he never reprimanded Vidya for running after him and he saved all of Kitta's letters for his family. To me, this shows that he still cares for him and is proud of his decision to follow his beliefs even though he doesn't agree with his decision. I want to believe that thatha would have been proud of his son for standing up for a woman who was unable to protect herself and was wrongfully harmed.
I also believe that thatha's wife was traditional. It seemed very apparent that the expectations of the men and women were well defined in this household. Vidya's aunts were appalled when Vidya asked for permission to use the library. It does not seem that anyone would have questioned or challenged the norm in the past. However, I agree with you, Martha, when you said thatha probably shared these books with his wife. Thatha made it clear that Vidya shared her grandmother's spirit and temper, so I am sure she maintained her traditional role while still satisfying her interests by reading. On page 225 thatha says, "I have grown old. I am as easy to manipulate as a lump of wet clay." It seems as though over time he has grown to appreciate this spirit in Vidya that was so similar to his wife's.
I do agree with you all that Thatha's wife was more than likely that of the traditional role. Wife, mother and taking on the roles of maintaining the cooking and serving within the household. Thatha commented that Vidya reminded him of her Grandmother, which leads me to believe that she may have wanted to have more than just handling some of the household duties at times. Therefore, I wonder the time period of which she lived limited her to some of her own dreams, and it was just unacceptable for her to live her dreams. I agree, Ashely, that the grandmother may have retreated to books to escape the limits she experienced in her day to day life, which also leads to a possible reason for the libraray. During Vidya's coming of age their was a great deal of change in the world around them, so maybe as appa reflected on the change,and his wife's memory,and was more accepting of Vidya's need for independence in giving her what he wasn't always able to give his wife. I often wondered what the tone of the aunts within the home would have been had she not passed away during childbirth. I know it was looked at as a burden to take on appa's family, so I wonder how she would have treated amma, Vidya, and Kitta? I guess in my mind she is more like appa and holds similarities to his beliefs and values.
ReplyDeleteI am wondering if Thatha might support his son's efforts because he agreed with freeing the people of India from British rule. He felt (and could see) the threat in his own back yard. I am wondering if he was not pleased about Kitta going to fight in the World War because he didn't feel the threat as close to home. I think it was more than Kitta was joining the British. It wasn't the British vs the rest of the world. I understand this feeling. I don't have sons, but I would have a hard time encouraging them to go to Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan to fight, but if there was an invasion on American soil, I think I might feel differently. I don't believe in war. I would support my child in their decision but wouldn't encourage the move. This is possibly how Thatha felt and this might be why he kept the letters.
ReplyDeleteI would like to think that Thatha's wife (and Vidya) was the type of woman who really wanted and valued her role as a wife and mother but also wanted and valued other aspects of her life as well. I agree the library could have been created for her as this type of woman would not have been accepted in the outside world. I don't know if a person who is extremely traditional regarding gender roles could change to the point where see Thatha in this book. I am suspicious that he was always a bit less "strict" about the roles his wife played in their home. I don't think his permissiveness for his wife would have continued outside of the home, so maybe the library was used by his wife a great deal as an outlet for her need to grow in mind and spirit. As a Brahmin, the men in the family were required to be educated and knowledgeable about the world around them. This was probably the library's primary purpose. The decision Thatha made to let Vidya use the library didn't take him very long. It seemed like he had been down that road before (with his wife). He probably allowed Vidya to use the library just as he had his wife. This brings me back to the idea that he was possibly always a bit more liberal than the average person of the times.
Hey everyone, sorry for the confusion, when it posts as Martha (my mother) it's Laura. I'm not sure why it uses my name sometimes and her name other times!
ReplyDeleteSarah, I thought your idea about Malati representing the traditional side of Thatha and Vidya representing the liberal side of him was really neat. He obviously loved both, so we see that both tradition and new ideas are important to him. As readers, it was helpful to have a traditional Indian girl to which to compare Vidya, so that we could really see how liberal she was. I wonder which granddaughter was more like Thatha's wife?
Lynn, I really enjoyed reading your last post. I agree that thatha probably wasn't as strict as other men during his time. It seemed that he supported his wife and her curiosity, maybe not outside the confines of the house, but at least by engaging in conversation about what was going on in the world and by reading books from the library together. I agree that the library was something that thatha created to uphold his status as a Brahmin and become more well educated, but it also became a place where his wife and later Vidya could also educate themselves and use as an outlet.
ReplyDeleteLynn and Ashley, I agree that Tatha probably originally created the library because he was Brahmin. It was expected of him to read books and become educated as he was a leader caste in society. However, Tatha created a room that he took much pride in. The books were all arranged in order and there was a variety of genres. I think that he probably enjoyed reading and had an internal passion for knowledge. I also agree that he probably allowed his wife to read and share the library. I don't think she herself went to college because women were expected to get married and fulfill their role as a wife. However, I do think that Tatha's wife probably took pride in the Library too, and she probably had some great discourse with Tatha stemming from the books. As Tatha's wife passed, the library was probably a place of many memories for him and seeing Vidya long for it, must have revived old memories and thoughts of his wife, her grandmother.
ReplyDelete